Book Study Week 1: Chapters 1-3

[(Rev.) Emily Gordon]

When Embarrassment and Apologies Get in the Way

Welcome to the first week of our online discussion!

During our in person group this morning there were mixed feelings about the book – some people found the first 3 chapters funny and interesting, others found them off-putting, American, and judgmental. You might fall anywhere between these two views – I’m glad we have such varied opinions. As an aside, we have one week set aside specifically to talk about the differences between the American and Canadian contexts.

Here are questions to discuss this week, you are welcome to respond to any or all:

1) Which of the opening quotations caught your attention, and why?

2) When have you felt awkward, embarrassed, or apologetic about talking about your religion?

3) Lillian Daniel writes, “It’s easy to create God in your own image and then follow her. Much harder to work with the God who created you and did not seek your input at your own creation. // Anyone can find God alone on a picturesque mountaintop. The miracle is that we can find God in the company of other people as annoying as we are” (page 22). How do you respond to Daniel’s view that religion is harder and more meaningful than being spiritual but not religious? What does religion offer that spirituality alone does not?

4) Daniel criticizes the idea that religious people should be nice rather than speaking about what they value about their religion (see pages 24-25). Do we agree with her view that niceness is being upheld as the most important value we model our behaviour on? What should our most important value(s) be?

5) Is it possible to make a case that religion matters without coming across as judgmental or proselytizing?

Just a reminder for everyone that this is completely public forum, so be sure you only share views and stories that you are comfortable having appear online. I am looking forward to an interesting discussion and debate this week and in the weeks ahead.

[Sandy Holman]

1. I didn’t like any of them.
2. Never apologetic, but once was embarrassed when a new acquaintance said “Well, YOUR bible says…….” and he cited a gruesome passage from the Old Testament. I did not reply because I did not know what to say. My son rescued me.
3.I loved that passage and even underlined it……I agree that religious is more meaningful, but you can be both. There is more committmentand community in “religious” I think.
4. I see nothing wrong with promoting your religion or community in an appropriate conversation.If you are known as a member of a church, your behaviour will speak for you.
5. Yes

[Emily]

I’ve been thinking about the critical tone that Daniel uses with the idea of “niceness” – being nice can be somewhat insipid, it’s about social expectations or people-pleasing, but doesn’t have much depth. In contrast, kindness or compassion is rooted in love or care. While being nice you would not want to ruffle any feathers, you might do so if you are being kind, because sometimes feathers should be ruffled…

[Fraser Holman]

1. The Hitchens one seemed an interesting observation. Fake news from Trump was typically offensive.
2. I do not find engaging in debates over religion productive so I do not engage.
3. The value of religion is much more than my own input could offer. I appreciate the community dimension of religion which I think would be reduced in the SBNR realm.
4. I think it all aims at good citizenship and effective social interactions.
5. I think so. One’s own behaviours and the example one sets can indirectly promote the ideas of religion.

[(Rev.) Emily Gordon]

Sandy & Fraser – you both connect religion with community. This was also a connection that many in our in person group made. Do others agree that this is a significant difference, and a benefit of religion?
Also, I was interested by your use of citizenship, Fraser. In a later chapter, Daniel will talk about church attendance and nationhood – and we’ll be able to discuss this in our Canadian context, so there will be a chance to think about this idea more.

[Michele]

1. The quote from Donald Trump is pretty creepy. “Believe me, if I run and I win, I will be the greatest representative of the Christians they’ve hand in a long time.” I don’t want him representing me our my family.

2. A couple of times recently i have felt awkward as it seems many people who don’t “do” church think people who do have an agenda of some kind to influence them in a way they are not comfortable with.

3. Religion offers a foundation of values and community whereas SBNR can be an a la carte approach to spiritual fulfillment with minimal structure like this … a little meditation here, some forest bathing there, a yoga class this week …

4. Yes, i would agree that niceness seems to be the easy superficial go to. It’s disingenuous at times and more of a role than an authentic experience with a person or community of persons. Values i believe are more beneficial are as examples responsibility and fairness.

5. no response right now.

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